Author Topic: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel  (Read 1980 times)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« on: January 02, 2012, 08:12:47 PM »
Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
Starting a 27-year old Detroit Diesel at 0F (-18c) without a block heater on  Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel, which was 80% waste vegetable oil (WVO) and 20% gasoline (petrol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoZT7rCUQY
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

nuffsaid

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 08:23:16 AM »
Wvo @ 80/20 rul and it was looking good last night in the low 20's, but this morning @ 15 F the sample was a solid block. After 15 minutes in the house, it was starting to turn liquid again kind of resembling frozen orange juice in the can, fluid on the outside solid cylinder on the inside. Looks like I will be waiting until april to try this blend out, although I should do another test and mix in 50% winter diesel with this blend and see how it does.

lolailando

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 09:38:12 AM »
I have had similar experience, although mine didn't gel at 14F till left undisturbed for 10+days in the freezer.
I have found out that are some fats in suspension that are very difficult to separate and settle.
I had samples inside, outside, etc... and it seems certain cycles of heat-cold kind of fast were the only ones that separated and settle (very slowly). I observed this by accident as one sample was next to my house door and would get the cold when I open the door, or keep it open while working on truck.
same sample could gel when cold then go liquid in the warmth but not- kicked out those fats.
we need to experiment more for cold applications AND different sources of WVO. Now I don't mix my sources, I have one that only fries fresh cut potatoes that I use on winter: no water, no fats; but this is an exceptional source.
Chevy 93 Dually, 2WD, 6.5TD, 170k, auto, banks air filter, one tank, WVO/RUG 80/20 for two weeks now in the 20-30ish F

lolailando

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 09:42:38 AM »
I would recomend anyone starting to blend in cold weather to keep diferent samples in the freezer with a thermometer and see what happens. Don't mix oil sources till you know 100% what you are doing.
I had a sample of wvo/rug 80/20 stay really liquid/thin for 10days or more , then sudenly one day starting to gel... I still dont understand why this happend .. but don't want that to happen in my tank.

I have also started and driven my truck down to 20F on 80/20. and driven it down to 12F. It is possible but need to know your oil well.

I just started with this a few weeks ago...still learning. But it defenetly seems that below 20F not all 80/20 mixes behave the same.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:10:58 AM by lolailando »
Chevy 93 Dually, 2WD, 6.5TD, 170k, auto, banks air filter, one tank, WVO/RUG 80/20 for two weeks now in the 20-30ish F

nuffsaid

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 11:38:13 AM »
I agree that different base stocks could react differently. I think my blend would be ok down to 25 degrees. I think I will mix in 50 percent diesel and see what it does, then I could run a 50/50 blend and be ok. I was amazed that my 80/20 mix turned into a solid blob of jello at 15 degrees. It could have gotten colder last night, but our official cold temp was 15 and that matched my thermometer at 8 am this morning.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 05:49:15 AM »
It would be very useful for research here if you two knew what oil you were using.  I know my sample that made it down to 0F last winter several times was canola blended with gasoline at 20%.  It sounds like you two are using some other kind of oil with a higher gel-point.  Maybe soy oil.

Another thing to keep in mind is you can actually increase the gasoline content of a waste oil blend up to 50% without damaging your engine.  Although 30% will probably be all you two need to make it through your winters.  And gasoline at 50% is going to have a lot more anti-gel effect than diesel at 50%.
Here is a photo of my 80% canola oil blended with gasoline at 20 and still liquid at 0F (-18c)
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:46:00 AM by Jhanananda »
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

lolailando

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 05:18:36 PM »
Yes mine is soy, I will post pictures and brand when I have some time. I is not the whole oil but a few particles that seem to gel. I beleive once I remove this particles (or fats) it doesn't gel so easy.
Also as I said it did not gel for 10 or so days undisturbed... which is not the usual situation in a truck.
My guess is that he has some more fats in his mix. When I mixed my two sources I would also get a solid block at 14F within a few hours but once I removed those dificult fats and settle them to the bottom the oil would not gel.
I beleive with time and testing a method can be developed to remove all those fats, although some seem to float for weeks even with 20% rug... and slowly go down. But certain cold-warm cycles brings them down faster. The temp cycle seems to be around 49-54F with sudden short colder drops. Stable 50-54F in a basement does not seem to separate in a few days as cycling.
I was wondering if flowing warm (54F'ish) oil through a container with a cold aluminum spade very cold (attached peltier), at the perfect speed would solidify this fats on the aluminum spade.
I do have some samples in my freezer that have been in the freezer for weeks without gelling at all, but those samples I pull from my truck tank and have some old diesel, kerosene, and red (home heating oil?).... not sure if there is the combination of diesel and rug that keeps it from gelling or the higher percentage.
Chevy 93 Dually, 2WD, 6.5TD, 170k, auto, banks air filter, one tank, WVO/RUG 80/20 for two weeks now in the 20-30ish F

nuffsaid

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 06:55:57 PM »
My oil is also soy. Last night, I blended my 80/20 sample with winterized diesel fuel 50/50. This morning it was 19 f and the sample was fluid.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 09:41:04 AM »
So, we have all just learned that soy oil blended at 20% with gasoline will only stay liquid down to about 20f (?), but canola oil will remain liquid down to about 0F when blended with gasoline at 20%; and winter diesel blended in at 50% will further reduce the gel-point of a waste oil blend.

Getting the gelling components out could be done in a number of ways.  I saw on VegeoildieselUK that someone had created a heat exchanger with a coil of copper tubing that was immersed in bath of biodiesel to extract out the high gel-point components.  I think this is a good idea.

Another way might be to employ fuel stratification.  Fuel stratification occurs near the gel-point of a fuel.  The reason for fuel stratification is, as a component in a fuel blend approaches its gel-point it precipitates out of solution and becomes dense, which means it is going to move to the bottom of the tank.  So, if you have a cone, or domed, shaped bottom on a settling tank, and you keep that settling tank unheated and out side on the shady part of your shop, then you could drain off the thick component of your blend first thing in the morning.  This might be all one has to do to remove the high gel-point components in your blend.  Then they can be stored for use in warmer weather.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 06:01:30 AM by Jhanananda »
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

lolailando

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 08:16:57 PM »
I do think soy @20%rug can go much lower, maybe is 25%... I am not sure.
My freezer said 14F in a thermometer I left inside for 1 day, but the sample didn't gel for over 10 days.. and I think that sample wasn't filtered.
I have several samples of the stuff that is in my truck and none of them gel in my freezer. I have been mixing mostly 80/20 and adding to the tank, but then my measurements are a bit eye balled, and I added a few gallons of old kerosene and old heating oil, plus a few gallons that were in the tank.
I will do samples again of filtered blend when I can but I have large sock filter and have to run a large 15g mix to be accurate.
Removing those floating fats my guess is that we should be able to go lower.
I am short in budget and can't even afford to buy a few more thermometers to put in the freezer at this point.
Chevy 93 Dually, 2WD, 6.5TD, 170k, auto, banks air filter, one tank, WVO/RUG 80/20 for two weeks now in the 20-30ish F

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 06:09:12 AM »
The fact that your sample remained in the refrigerator at about 14F without gelling for several days says it can run at about that temperature just fine.  The fuel did not gel because of how many days it was at 14F, but your freezer must have suddenly dropped its temperature, and the temperature does not have to drop much when a fluid is close to its gel-point.  Even a 10th of a degree drop is enough to tip a fluid from liquid phase to solid phase.  So your fuel blend was good down to 15F for sure.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:44:10 AM by Jhanananda »
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

lolailando

  • vetted member
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »
thanks Jeffrey,
that is what I was guessing, I only have one thermomether that records min. max. and I have been moving it around.
My guess was also that for that stretch of time i open the freezer less and got colder. I had the thermomether in there only for 2 days. Unfortunately I don't have money right now to buy 10 of them and have one on each location.
Chevy 93 Dually, 2WD, 6.5TD, 170k, auto, banks air filter, one tank, WVO/RUG 80/20 for two weeks now in the 20-30ish F

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2012, 10:44:43 AM »
Running waste oil blend diesel fuel in cold weather by blending it with solvents

In one of my first experiments, during the winter of 2005, to see if gasoline could be used as a solvent for thinning waste oil for use as a diesel fuel, I blended in several wide-mouthed one-quart (liter) canning jars varying blends of WVO and unleaded gasoline (petrol). They were 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% regular unleaded gasoline (RUG, petrol). I found that the unleaded gasoline (petrol) mixed readily with nothing more then a few gentle swirls of the blend, and I found they never separated even after 2 years of no movement.

Recent experiments with new canola oil and new 10/40 motor oil have shown that these oils behaves very similarly. Thus, we can extrapolate similar behavior over similar temperature ranges between WVO and WMO. We can also conclude that gasoline readily blends with waste vegetable oil and/or motor oil and does not separate.

At the time of the 2005 experiments I also wanted to find out if gasoline blending would reduce the cloud point and melting point of recycled waste vegetable oil (WVO), which was soy oil, so in that experiment I later placed the samples in a refrigerator over night, then a freezer over night, to see if the gasoline dropped the pour point of the vegetable oil, and/or would the oil solidify and settle out. At that time I found the WVO and gasoline still did not separate, and the pour point did in deed drop. Even as low as a %5 gasoline blend showed a noticeable lowering of the cloud point just below 32F (0c). I found at that time that it took a mix of about 20% to drop the pour point temperature of waste soy oil down to about 20F (-6.7C).

I have recently been researching the physical properties of a wide range of fuels, solvents and oils.  In that research I found that Kerosene and Turpentine have similar melting points at about -50c (-58f).  This means that blending them with a light vegetable oil, like canola oil, which has a melting point just below freezing, will raise the melting point of the solvent, while at the same time the solvent lowers the melting point of the oil in a mathematical relationship based upon the mix-ratio.  It has been reported that it takes roughly 50-80% Kerosene or JP-4 to keep canola oil liquid down to about -30C (-22f) to -40c/f.  However, if one were to use a solvent that has a significantly lower melting point, such as gasoline or acetone, which is about -100C (-148F), then it is very possible that one could keep canola oil liquid down to a much lower temperature.

During the winter of 2011 I found WVO based upon canola oil that was blended at 20% with gasoline remained liquid down to 0F (-18c).  Recent reports during the winter of 2012 found gasoline blended at 20% with waste soy oil remained liquid down to 15F (-10C).

So, I recommend at lest 20% gasoline blended in canola based WVO or 10-40 WMO down to 0F (-18c), or soy oil down to 15F (-10C). Below that I recommend increasing the gasoline content by 1% for every 3 degrees lower. I have since found that animal fat and hydrogenated oils do not blend readily with gasoline so the should be removed for cold weather use.

Video:
Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
Starting a 27-year old Detroit Diesel at 0F (-18c) without a block heater on  Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel, which was 80% waste vegetable oil (WVO) and 20% gasoline (petrol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoZT7rCUQY
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 10:51:16 AM »
Running waste oil blend diesel fuel in cold weather by blending it with solvents

In one of my first experiments, during the winter of 2005, to see if gasoline could be used as a solvent for thinning waste oil for use as a diesel fuel, I blended in several wide-mouthed one-quart (liter) canning jars varying blends of WVO and unleaded gasoline (petrol). They were 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% regular unleaded gasoline (RUG, petrol). I found that the unleaded gasoline (petrol) mixed readily with nothing more then a few gentle swirls of the blend, and I found they never separated even after 2 years of no movement.

Recent experiments with new canola oil and new 10/40 motor oil have shown that these oils behaves very similarly. Thus, we can extrapolate similar behavior over similar temperature ranges between WVO and WMO. We can also conclude that gasoline readily blends with waste vegetable oil and/or motor oil and does not separate.

At the time of the 2005 experiments I also wanted to find out if gasoline blending would reduce the cloud point and melting point of recycled waste vegetable oil (WVO), which was soy oil, so in that experiment I later placed the samples in a refrigerator over night, then a freezer over night, to see if the gasoline dropped the pour point of the vegetable oil, and/or would the oil solidify and settle out. At that time I found the WVO and gasoline still did not separate, and the pour point did in deed drop. Even as low as a %5 gasoline blend showed a noticeable lowering of the cloud point just below 32F (0c). I found at that time that it took a mix of about 20% to drop the pour point temperature of waste soy oil down to about 20F (-6.7C).

I have recently been researching the physical properties of a wide range of fuels, solvents and oils.  In that research I found that Kerosene and Turpentine have similar melting points at about -50c (-58f).  This means that blending them with a light vegetable oil, like canola oil, which has a melting point just below freezing, will raise the melting point of the solvent, while at the same time the solvent lowers the melting point of the oil in a mathematical relationship based upon the mix-ratio.  It has been reported that it takes roughly 50-80% Kerosene or JP-4 to keep canola oil liquid down to about -30C (-22f) to -40c/f.  However, if one were to use a solvent that has a significantly lower melting point, such as gasoline or acetone, which is about -100C (-148F), then it is very possible that one could keep canola oil liquid down to a much lower temperature.

During the winter of 2011 I found WVO based upon canola oil that was blended at 20% with gasoline remained liquid down to 0F (-18c).  Recent reports during the winter of 2012 found gasoline blended at 20% with waste soy oil remained liquid down to 15F (-10C).

So, I recommend at lest 20% gasoline blended in canola based WVO or 10-40 WMO down to 0F (-18c), or soy oil down to 15F (-10C). Another thing to keep in mind is one can actually increase the gasoline content of a waste oil blend up to 50% without damaging a diesel engine. And gasoline at 50% is going to have a lot more anti-gel effect than diesel at 50%. Thus, below to 0F (-18c) I recommend increasing the gasoline content by 1% for every 3F (.5c) degrees lower.

Also, I have since found that animal fat and hydrogenated oils do not blend readily with gasoline so they should be removed for cold weather use.
Here is a photo of my 80% canola oil blended with gasoline at 20% and still liquid at 0F (-18c)


Video:
Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
Starting a 27-year old Detroit Diesel at 0F (-18c) without a block heater on  Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel, which was 80% waste vegetable oil (WVO) and 20% gasoline (petrol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoZT7rCUQY
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • I blend waste oils with solvents
    • Beyond Biodiesel
Re: Cold weather performance of Waste Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 07:03:21 AM »
WVO Mixed with unleaded gas in cold temp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzxmczXp0FQ&feature=colike
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c). I have found th